Chess, Clinical Trials, and Unexpected Solutions

Transcript generated by AI.

Announcer: 0:00

Welcome to the MedEvidence Monday Minute Radio Show hosted by Kevin Geddings of WSOS St. Augustine Radio and powered by ENCORE Research Group. Each Monday morning, Dr. Michael Koren calls in to bring you the latest medical updates with insightful discussions. MedEvidence is where we help you navigate the real truth behind medical research, with both a clinical and research perspective. So sit back, relax and get ready to learn about the truth behind the data in medicine and healthcare. This is MedEvidence and it actually.

Dr. Michael Koren: 0:33

Zugzwang, spelled Z U G Z W A N G. Its origins are from chess, but it's now a more general word. That means that whatever move you make, it seems to worsen your position. So this started. I think it was originally derived about 200 years ago, when a German chess master recognized the fact that you can get into situations in a chess game where whatever move you make makes things worse , and now that's sort of evolved to be a word that applies to any situation in which you make a move and things seem to get worse.

Kevin Geddings: 1:14

Wow.

Dr. Michael Koren: 1:14

And the reason I brought that up is because, with all the discussion about side effects of different medical products, particularly vaccines, it puts us in a little bit of a of a situation of zugzwang were where we feel like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Dr. Michael Koren: 1:29

So if you get the vaccine, you maybe get a side effect, but if you don't get the vaccine, maybe you get sick and either way, either move results in a bad outcome, and I thought that was interesting, because a move that people may not have thought of but that's part of what all of us can do is, instead of doing one or the other, get involved in a clinical trial. It's a move that your competitor will have never thought of. So I throw that as a suggestion and I wonder about your feedback, kevin.

Kevin Geddings: 2:00

Well, obviously you know a lot of folks. When they get you know scary diagnosis of some particular disease, state you know and they don't like the normal sort of protocols for dealing with it, they start looking for those opportunities to engage in clinical trials. Right, we see that all the time.

Dr. Michael Koren: 2:15

Yeah, yeah, and one of the concepts behind zugzwang is that you're in a game where you have to make a move.

Kevin Geddings: 2:23

Right.

Dr. Michael Koren: 2:24

And in life you may want to put it off, and put it off, and put it off, but eventually you have to make a move.

Announcer: 2:29

So you might as well.

Dr. Michael Koren: 2:31

Be prepared to make your best move and try to avoid zugzwang by doing something. Maybe that's a little bit different.

Kevin Geddings: 2:37

Yeah, give us an example of that really quick. You know an example of a clinical trial people could participate in. That illustrates how there is another option other than just two bad options.

Dr. Michael Koren: 2:48

Well, let's talk about lipoprotein, little a.

Dr. Michael Koren: 2:51

Okay, that's an area that we're very involved with. So we know that this is a type of cholesterol molecule lipoprotein that is associated with very bad outcomes, particularly in certain families, but we don't have any direct way of treating it right now. We have some things that make a little bit of an impact, but we can't treat it directly. So what are your options? Well, your options are to try something that's not really proven, and I'm sure if you Google things, you'll find a bunch of folks that'll recommend something, but, again, none of these things are really proven. You can sit around and wait for a heart attack, which is not a great option, or you can be involved in a clinical trial, where you may or may not get the product that's being studied, but you will be in a system where everything will be looked at and whatever advantage we can give you will be put forward. So I think that'd be a good example.

Kevin Geddings: 3:43

Yeah, that is a really good example. Well, once again, if you would like to learn more, we encourage you to go to the ENCORE Research Group. That's ENCORE Research Group. And if you're just looking for information, good information about health care and health issues that you can trust because you really can't trust Facebook or the Google go to this website. Right, Dr. Koren? Give them the MedEvidence website.

Dr. Michael Koren: 4:06

Yeah, it's MedEvidence. com. We like to really make the point that there's things that we know, there's things we don't know, and there's a process by which we discover the things that we don't know and learn more about them. So MedEvidence. com is a series of podcasts and we're really jazzed about this. Right now it is, in fact, becoming viral. We're now getting tens of thousands of views for each of these podcasts and I think people are enjoying the fact that there is an interaction between physicians and you really get a sense for again, what we know, what we don't know, and how we learn about the stuff we don't know. So I think that's a unique feature of this platform.

Kevin Geddings: 4:47

Absolutely Go to MedEvidence. com and you have an opportunity to see Dr. Michael Koren live and in person with the guys over at WOKV. Right, You've got an event coming up on the 11th.

Dr. Michael Koren: 4:58

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. We've done some stuff at WJCT and now we're going to do something with WOKV, so I'm really looking forward to it. So, if you get a chance, come on by or listen to the podcast that we'll develop based on that discussion.

Kevin Geddings: 5:13

Yeah, you can learn more. It's on the website WOKV. com their website, the news talk station here in our part of the world. So well, Dr. Michael Koren, we appreciate you. Be safe out there driving, good luck during the storm and we'll talk with you on Monday, okay.

Dr. Michael Koren: 5:25

See you, Kevin.

Announcer: 5:27

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